Special Edition: GRASSROOTS with special guest Sean Bleakley - Traditional Bowhunter 42yrs & PBS Social Media Rep

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Code of Traditional Archery. Brought to you by Primitive Stone Archery and the founder Grant Richardson.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to the Code of Traditional Archery podcast. I'm Grant Richardson, your host. Welcome to all the new people joining us, and a big thank you to those who've been supporting us thus far. The Code of Traditional Archery is dedicated to the legacy and heritage of traditional bow hunting and the process of the ethical predator, the silent art of hunting the hard way. Original intent of this podcast was to bring back traditional archery and bow hunting to an older era where hunting ability met archer, and together the two formed a bow hunter. Shooting and hunting with recurves and longbows is more popular than ever. However, the approach is much more so an art and skill set, not a product, but a process. We welcome Sean Blakely, lifetime traditional bow hunter, and longtime member of the Professional Bow Hunter Society. Welcome to this Grats Roosevelt Sedition, episode 27 of the Code of Traditional Archery. I want to welcome Sean Blakely. Did I pronounce that right, Sean?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Ah, Blakely, long A.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Blakely, there we go. We had that, I think somebody may pronounce your name wrong the other day, I heard it on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Tracking that. Perfect. I want to welcome you to the Code of Traditional Archery grassroots edition of the podcast. We're kind of switching gears a little bit. And um, we talk about you know the three pillars I wrote about in my book, which is the weapons proficiency with a stick bone, what that means to you and any lessons learned. And that carries on through um, you know, ethics to guide us on that journey of hunting and then conservation and stewardship as well. But please take the time to introduce yourself and thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Uh yeah, I'm uh Sean Blakely, um from New York, the Hudson Valley area. Uh I've been involved in archery for about oh, probably 46, 46 or so years. Started out with a compound and for about well, probably less than 10 years, and then went to a went to a recurve and I shot a recurve ever since. Um and that's kind of taken me to a lot of places that I never thought I'd be. And um, you know, doing podcasts and things like that. If I can get more people interested in it or whatever, that that's that's my main goal.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, I think that's uh important today. Like I I it's funny, I said uh to someone last week that was asking me about it, and he was they'd come up empty at their rifle camp for the whole week, their gun camp here. And he said to me, Um, you know, how do you like have the patience to do that? And I said, Well, it's kind of a little bit less of a hunting method, a little bit more of a lifestyle. Because if you don't kind of embrace it that way, you're gonna get pretty disappointed pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

You know, I mean that lifestyle thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Oh, yeah, well, yeah, lifestyle. And that's what it is. It's it's you know, I've hunted yeah all over North America, Canada. You know, I I I did two weeks in South Africa this summer, and it's you know, a lot of those trips I came up, you know, empty-handed. And right, and I'm I'm okay with that. You know, it's uh you know, I it's like you hear, I guess, like Mike Mitten talk about it, it's it's it's about the journey, it's not the destination. It's it's how you do it, the way you do it. It Jay Massey, Jay Massey, oh my goodness, yeah. You know, he I mean, he didn't have a you know, he was a you know good hunter, but because of the self-limitations that you know he set on himself, yeah. He uh you know, it it was you know, he didn't end up, you know, taking a lot of game like like say maybe a Fred Bear or something like that. But sure, yeah, of course what he did take was was was quality that's right.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yep. I I remember the first time I actually got really close to a buck that was bedded down. And of course, there was two does on the other side of the cedar fence I didn't know were there either, and they they were all over me and they let him know I was there, and he ran, didn't know exactly where I was, but he ran by me. He was so close, he was within eight feet of me when he took off by me. I was like, I think I was 17 or 18. I remember thinking, oh my god, like that was an incredible. It didn't even matter. I didn't get a shot. I mean, I was so I remember sitting down on this. I had to take kind of a breath for a minute because he almost ran me over. I remember thinking, wow, how did I do that? And then you know, lear years later came to the uh you know, um revelation when I was telling that to somebody, telling that story to somebody. I realized I tried it about two dozen times before and never it failed. I hadn't gotten it, you know, that I'd failed through that whole, you know, uh attempt. I mean, it takes a little bit of resilience to be a a stickbow hunter, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, it's it's definitely it's a mentality that not everybody has. And it it and I think about this a lot, being involved in you know, Comptons and and PBS. And the the people that were most of my friends that I have, you know, now that I really are from or you know, belong to both of these organizations.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

And it's uh it's a I think that's we all have that we have a lot of things in common that uh you know, a lot of personality traits and things like that. Right. And you know, I don't want to say it it's like we're better people, but it's I tell you what, the people, the friends that I've made in being involved in traditional archery are some of the the best people I've I've ever come across in in all any of my trips or anything I've ever done. I mean, it's some really, really, really great people that I've met through traditional archery.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

It's funny, I've talked to so many people in the last couple of years, and I've I I just absolutely love hearing people's experiences, even if they're not my experiences, they're so relatable. Everything is so relatable, and I find that really fascinating. Um and you know, I talk about you know, the first discussion we talked about is that weapons proficiency with a stick bow. And you know, I had I had someone recently ask me, Oh, you know, you must be one of these shot pros. I'm like, oh my god, no. Like, I mean, I tried that with one of the prior Damon Howard owners when Martin still owned them, and they sent me two bows, and I've said this before, I shot for them a whole summer, did really well. Um and then at the end of it was, well, you know, we don't have a big market in Canada, stick bows aren't really pop what we're really gonna focus on, so just send the bows back, unless you want to buy them. I'm like, not with that attached to it, I'm not, because I still had seven howits at that time sitting there. I guess my point was is that I'm like, wow, you know, like no, I'm not. But in order to maintain that effectiveness, I don't know about you, but personally, me, and I'd love to hear your input on this, especially since we're kind of similar in that way. I've got a big mojo thing with Damon Howitt, and you have the same thing with Black Widow because something about that bow design and the company and all of that rest of it kind of fits your own spiritual makeup with that bow in your hand.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, it's it's just for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

So I'd love to walk. Right. I'd love to hear your lessons learned about you know what happened when you first picked up a black widow and you're you're shooting and you know, your experiences with that in the woods.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Well, my my whole thing with Black Widow came about actually after watching. I don't know if you're familiar with the uh it was the video Wayta Eye to Eye.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Alan Allen, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And uh and I I told Alan that I said, you're the reason why I shoot a Black Widow is just because of that. And you know, I said, I gotta and I had been shooting, I had I had a couple old bears I was shooting before that, and I had a uh a Hoyt takedown uh recurve that uh um that was the first uh and I had a couple as bells before that. Yeah, and uh so I said, Well, I want to get me one. So I I ordered and I ordered from Ken Beck and they sent a TNT video with it. Yeah, so I watched that and uh all the arrow tuning and everything like that, and then you know, any video I could watch. Um so it just uh you know, and back then I think it was it it probably took a little over two months just to get, I I I believe. You know, maybe maybe two and a half months. And um, I ordered it late in the season. I think I got it in March of 96 when I finally had it in my hands, uh, February, March 96. And um I yeah, I mean it I I I remember the excitement. I remember the uh just I remember just kind of feeling special that I had it, you know. Yeah, and it it was funny because I had a hard time shooting it. Now, the other bows that I had before that, they were set up where I had I was shooting off an elevated rest and I was shooting three under. Gotcha. So when I ordered this bow, I had, you know, Ken and I we spoke on the phone and we kind of came up with the specs with it, just you know, talking about what I was shooting there and everything else. Sure. And uh so I had it tillered for three under, and I just couldn't shoot that three under. But he also talked me into shooting off the shelf. Right. And he explained, you know, how you, you know, and I can't, I have, I have a I have a pretty, pretty good can't. I can't from probably you know, with a like a two to seven can. Sure. And um, and I just for some reason I just with three on, so I just started I went to split finger and then I started put kind of putting everywhere I wanted.

unknown 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

So it it took a little bit without because I was a little discouraged at first with it. It was, it was, it was kind of uh it was a little scary, actually, you know. Right. And then then I just, you know, I just I shot every day, shot every day. Yeah, probably missed, I don't know, probably the first, I don't know, maybe four or five deer I shot at with it. Um just kind of getting, you know, because I think before that I'd taken maybe three three or four deer before that, and then um and then I just I kind of changed up shooting a little bit and I was getting a little more accurate with it. And then from there on in it was you know turned out pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

So yeah, yeah. Yeah, I it's funny though, if you if you think about it, like I can I remember the very first deer that I shot. I had had I just had a a pretty large buck right in front of me that was just terrible shot presentation. He did the he walked straight in at me and then I went around and he buggered off, and then there was this smaller buck came in right behind me, and I was so frustrated because I had the bow up for probably 10 minutes. I'm like, oh my heart was racing. And this, I'll never forget this as long as I live. It was the first time it just sort of happened without me thinking all this stuff through it. And I turned and this little buck came about 15 yards to my left and started quartering away from me and winded me, like he knew I was there, but he was doing that stiff, slow walk, and then he he saw the bigger buck across from across this little meadow, about maybe 90 yards away, and he froze. And I remember just going boom, and the arrow went straight where I was looking. Like, I'll never forget that. Was the first time where it was almost that no mind kind of thing, yeah, of placement and just just shooting without any type of that was a real big connection piece for me. I'll never forget that. I'm like, wow, that was credit incredible. It's just the deer ran 50 yards and piled up. That was nuts. Now, of course, that's the best case scenario. We don't we know it always doesn't happen that way.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah, but um once for like for me, once I could calm myself down and pick a spot, right? Then it was it was it it it and that's usually my number one advice when I when I yeah when I tell somebody about it, is just you gotta pick that spot, you know, yeah, because I was just I would fall apart you know a little bit. Um you know, coming from you know from the range, you know, shooting at a live animal, I remember, and just not picking a spot, just every shot over top, over top. And then finally I remember just like again, very you know calming myself down. I gotta you know, calm myself down, picking a spot, and then it it's it's just amazing how you know just that arrow go right where you're looking.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. The uh that like the training platform I utilize isn't so much the technical aspects of the draw and the anchor and all that, some of that's covered, yeah, for people that have never done anything before. But I mean, my daughter Indy, she's 14 this year. That kid is a way better shot in her own platform of what she does with a hunting weight recurve than I was at even at 18 or 19. Wow, yeah, it's it's crazy, you know. Um, like it's incredible, and she's also super discriminating. She'll like, you know, she's decided not to drop the arrow a couple times, and she loves hunting off the ground. That's her thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I mean, you know, she took feathers off the back of the tom at 25-26 yards last year at a pretty fast walk because he saw her, saw her when she came up to shoot, and she's like, Oh my god, I you know, I missed. And I walked over to her, and we and there was two of the feathers off the base of his neck lying there, and he had he was still taking off and chasing these two toms across another field. And I said, You came within a quarter of an inch of taking that bird off the ground in a completely crazy position with your bow almost completely out of wrap, you know, a crazy can't. I said, and she goes, Well, I guess he left me a couple of presents, and she picked up the feathers and kept them. But I mean, like I I think there's something to be said for more. That's I like to do the training aspect of shooting a little bit more than the picking at the finite points because I find for me anyway, and as you I know with your background, you've done a whole lot of pistol shooting, carbine shooting. They're under pressure and adrenaline, no matter what format you put it in, you're gonna default to what you've done to shoot, not what someone may have told you to correct in increments, you know, yeah, versus that your muscle memory. That's right, right? You know, I mean, um, when I was much younger, uh, I did a a camp, a week-long uh combat pistol training with um a very well-known organization, I won't say who it was, um, in the States. And I was so excited to go there. The safety brief was an hour long. It was because of how many problems they'd had with people who were coming in there figuring they were, you know, six-gun, you know, kind of cowboys, so to speak. And and some people shot themselves. They had range cars, they shot themselves in the foot. And yeah, they there were safety precautions that weren't being followed. They developed some bad habits. Anyway, I digress, but that's sort of how I see that translating into yeah, you know, a lot of shooting, you know. Like some people will come to me, what do I do about shooting? I'm like, Well, you need to shoot more. It's just you know, in some cases, you know, you know, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

And you know, pistol shooting, it's it's actually not a whole lot different, right? You know, it's like you know, my shoe, it's I have kind of a you know, when people ask me how I shoot, I really can't explain it. And I and I just I make it, I make a joke. I said, I I you know, I said I'm an instinctive snap gap shooter, right? Okay, so I kind of do all three. Yes, and you know, uh it's but same with a pistol, you know, it's I have both eyes open, I you know, shoot both eyes open, focus on my target, you know, and then just everything else happened. Just draw back and yeah, you know, you know, if I get the anchor, you know, it's it's yeah, it's easy to release right there. But I usually get the anchor pretty much, you know. It depends because if if I'm kind of if if I have too many people around or too, uh my concentration is just yeah, yeah. But if I'm in the woods by myself, it's a it's a whole lot easier for me to focus on what I'm doing. But if if I'm in a 3D, you know, say, you know, at ETAR or something, and I'm around a bunch of guys, it's just uh I that's all I'm thinking about is and I'm I'm either short drawing or plucking a string, or I I just usually fall apart in the shot like that. But we don't keep score and you know, we joke around and stuff like that with it. But you know, it does kind of get a little bit of like you know, especially if I send a you know arrow over top or you know, something like that. But you know, it it does get a little humbling.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

My dad was a member of a hunt camp. I was I was probably 10 or 11 for just for a couple years, and they used to hold those big turkey shoots with 22s, you know, they'd have a turkey shoot. Yep. And um he had a brownie explorer too back then, beautiful rosewood, you know, sapwood. And uh that was one of the first recurves that did it for me. I had that Doug Kittridge with a cowboy hat, a plaid shirt, and jeans in my brain, it just burned in there, you know. Um, and just with that bull quiver in the bow, and he just go out. That was crazy for me. And so one day we were out there, and these guys were kind of there, it was starting to get a little heated about bows and arrows. And they're they're like, Well, why don't why don't we do our our poker chip shoot with you? He said to my this one guessed it to my dad, Fred. So he's like, Okay, yeah, no problem. And I'm thinking, holy crap, they bring this thing back to like 30 yards, and the guy takes a shot was 22. And of course, he takes the poker chip out, no problem. Yeah, my brings back my it was Brown Explorer versus a 22 CUI, right? Yeah, so my dad brings this, gets his bow, and he draws and he lets down, he draws, and he he pinwheels a poker chip. They do, they go three for three, and I'm like, Oh my god, this is crazy. And the the pot was raising up to a point where they decided to quit. We got in the truck that day. He had we had a uh it would have been 79 because we had a red Ford Bronco, the old ones, the massive ones.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

We got in one of these things and we're going down this road, and I look over my dad, and he's got this grin on us. He said, Go, how did you do that? And he said, Well, the same guy for the last few months has been bragging to people about how good a shot he is at a poker chip at 30 yards or 20 yards, or whatever it was. So he goes, I took a bunch of the old checker chips I've been shooting at them for the last three months. It was like he'd practice for that scenario ahead of time, kind of pulled the magic trick kind of thing on him, you know, the whole reveal thing. But it, you know, I remember thinking after that, kind of deflated a little bit of the mystique for me as a kid. I'm like, wait, what? What do you mean you practice for that? You didn't just haul off and do it, you know? Yeah, and um, I say it in my book, I talk about my dad's friend Mike Watannick. Mike was a he was a diehard ASL guy. Like, if you used anything else but an ASL and his wiki two blade or a Howard Hill, he liked his Howard Hill's two broadheads. Oh, yeah, he would spit on everything else, he was completely obtuse to any other way of doing anything. And he had like a 75-pound uh Howard Hill Big Five original, and he got my dad one too. He had a few of them, and these were Schultz-built big fives, they were crazy, crazy bows. And we he would be a big deer hunter, but he loved snowshoe rabbit hunting, like Sean, he was obsessed with it, and he would like he would show up at my dad's door randomly because my dad had access to all this land around our rural area, and he was from Ottawa, the city. Yeah, he's like, Come on, Freddie, we're gonna go out and hunt. Like, oh my god. So we'd go out and hunt rabbits. Man, I saw that guy make shots at people. I talk about one of them. There's other ones there. I mean, I saw him shoot a gross out of the air with that thing, and and people would never believe me if I wrote about it. And I I wrote about one in the book about him shooting a rabbit, and it was probably farther than it was I said in the book. Like it was like pinwheeling this thing, and I remember saying to him, the first thing was I needed to shoot like that. I'm like, I have to be able to do that. And two, how does he do it? He never could explain it to me. It was just so personal, and I remember him saying, I don't know. I look at the rabbit, I aim down the arrow, and the arrow goes where I'm looking. Just let's keep going. He's like, What we're wasting time here, you know. He I think it was Polish Czechoslovakian guys, a man of few words, and he was just like, I've saw that guy do some things with that big five that oh yeah, people would think I'm just full of it. It was crazy for me. So I don't talk about a lot of them, like you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, yeah. No, that's it's it's definitely something, especially. You know, I've done quite a bit of rabbit hunting and yeah, hitting, you know, hitting them on the run, and that's you know, you're and with that we do a lot. We used to used to hunt up up toward Albany. Uh we'd meet up every last weekend of our rabbit season, we get a bunch of guys going. And uh, you know, we usually do pretty good, and it's probably one of the best rabbit places I've seen. These are cottontails.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Any snowshoes up. Um, and uh, but even with that, it's just you, you know, some you just gotta just let your brain just take over. You don't think about really think about anything. You just you know, you're drawing and shooting. That's because everything happens so fast, that's what you gotta do. And it I think that kind of helps because again, what we I say about muscle memory is it just it helps it's you're reacting to the shot. Right. Um, I shot a I shot a doe uh two years ago, and it was actually I I would I had a kind of suffering from target panic a little bit before that, you know, just kind of just uh falling apart at the shot for a little bit, and and and this actually really helped me because I had to and all it was was I had to kind of scooch under a to get under a branch, yeah, and and shoot. So I was more concerned by getting under that branch, and I just drew back shooting it was, I mean, it you know, double on them right behind the shoulder, buried in the opposite shoulder, and uh, you know, she's quartering away. It was and it I needed that shot at the time because and it just kind of helped me. I just my mind kind of went blank. I just shot and that was it. Yeah, you know, and it yeah, it kind of everything fell into place.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

That kind of goes along with sort of the next pillar of the of what I call the co-nutritional archery, is that ethics to guide us along that journey. And that, like I talked to Brian Burkhardt a lot about this offline and both in podcasts, but I really like I really identify with what Brian said. He said, you know, I've decided not to draw on more deer than I've ever, or animals than I've ever let the string down on. Yeah, you know what do you have to say about that? I'm interested in knowing because I know I know with you, you know, I've looked a little bit at the stuff that you've done in the organizations you've been sitting on as well. Because you you have kind of more of a an ear to the ground for that kind of thing, right? I I kind of I spoke to the big game committee here a couple years ago and got laughed out the door, you know, on that. Because my point was uh they and I let me frame this real quick. So hold that thought. My whole thing was I'm not against crossbows. Don't bring me in here as a stickbow hunter and to slam crossbows. At least provide some training, go along with the crossbows if you're gonna give them three months to hunt in the archery season.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Because a lot of these guys are good gun hunters, they they do deer drives, they know where bullet placement is, but I can put a bullet almost 360 on a deer in most cases, except the rear end, yeah, with a rifle, especially with the skills that I've been trained in, apart from other, you know, professionally, as you're aware of. And and it's not for me with a bow, you have to be really careful. Like, where is that arrow gonna exit versus where it enters? Things like that. And they're like, What you're not getting, Grant is it though, is that that isn't what sells. Success sells. And we can have a guy walk into Cabela's and grab a crossbow and hunt with it the next day. I'm like, you're not uh carrying me out here. Anyway, I'll yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

That's you know, it's it goes to again with with the and I I think it's more so with a with a stick bow than anything else, is you know, uh say there was an animal that you didn't want to take, you know, you really have to wait for just for that perfect shot, you know, for you gotta wait for it to you know turn a certain way, step forward and everything else. And if and if it I mean I have I had uh I I had about oh I don't know, he was probably about 130 inch, about 130 inch, 135 inch buck. I had him at 25 yards, and I wouldn't take that shot at 25 yards. I watched him. He and he, I had him broadside, but it's just I'm not I'm not that you know, I wasn't that comfortable 25 yards, just it's just me. And long story short, he you brought up crossbows. That buck ended up getting from what I like I was hunting my kids' property, and yeah, uh, it was taken with a crossbow at a it at 70 yards. You know, so kind of was like, uh, you know, it I don't know, I'd almost rather see you get by a car, but uh that that's but as far as like what you were saying is letting you know just not letting a string go on more animals than anything else. That's you know, for me that's that's part of it, the observation. Um you know, you I think just like I think with trapping makes you a better uh I think trappers make better hunters. Sure. I think traditional bow hunters make better bow hunters because you gotta you have to take it that that next step. You you're noticing more, you're seeing more, you have to you have to get closer, you know, just like with you know with trapping, how trapping makes you, you you're seeing more sign. Right. You're seeing you know little subtle trails, where the set of, and then that in turn helps with with the hunting. So that's kind of you know, uh I'm I'm hoping I answer that part of your question pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, well, like see you're it like you like we talked about before we started recording, ethics is a very individual thing, essentially. It's not uh it's based on experience and exposure and all these other things. I love reading what Dennis Camstra's old experiences when he used to write about hunting in Africa and how he set up things there because you're looking at a different level, you know, with that, you know, um, which is something I've never done, you know. Yeah, um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

It's you know, it's it's it's just uh you know, it like I said, it it's hard to explain to somebody. Um, and again, just like this past summer I yeah, I hunted South Africa. I was with a friend of mine from high school. We went and it was just the four of us, it was three rifle hunters, and I had my recurve. Um you know, anybody who's hunted Africa, there was a you know, there's a price tag on each animal, and for me, most of the animals that I had shots at were a little out of my were a lot out of my price range.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

And um right, but it and it's funny because with Brian, Brian Brian was you know kind of roused me a little bit because I I posted a picture of a um of a z of a of a zebra. And then I had I just I just didn't feel comfortable with the shot. I didn't take the shot, and you know, and that part of me wanted to take a zebra, but then part of me really didn't want to take a zebra. So it's kind of like, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I didn't know how I felt about it. And then, you know, he he shot me a message with with uh picture of one he had taken and you know stuff like that. But yeah, it's you know it I don't think a lot of people and and traditional bull hunters, I think, in in terms are easier to pass up opportunities like that than than others. Again, because most of it's it's not necessarily, you know, about you know, about the kill. It's you know, more so the experience in there, setting it up. I mean, when it all comes together, it's great. It's it's the you know, I and it's funny because again, I don't want to, but I was thinking about uh I wanna like in 2019, uh, I wrote a little um article for the PBS magazine. I I pretty much hunted, you know, three of the four corners of the U.S. I hunted, you know, I I moose hunted Alaska that year. I hunted uh Bears in New Brunswick and you know hogs in Florida. And it was, you know, and you know, I I I came back from all three of those places, you know, empty-handed. Um, but it wasn't, you know, yeah, I did have a I mean I had a I had a you know I had a moose at 12 yards in in Alaska, but but non-residents, he was had a uh had a size limit. So I couldn't, you know, I couldn't release on it, but I mean 12 yards, I could smell them, I could smell that musky smell. Right. So it was it was an experience. That as far as I was concerned, that was as good as you know, I don't have his antlers, I didn't have his meat to take home, and you know, moose meat's probably some of my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

And uh, you know, but I had that memory, I had that experience. Um New Brunswick Bear Hunt, probably one of the biggest black bears I've I've seen. I had come, he walked directly underneath me. Yep, and he walked out. It was a big board that came in. I had I had a saddle and two cubs about maybe 20 minutes before he came in. Yep. And but he just he just was directly facing away from me the entire time until he got to about 40 yards and when he finally turned and walked off. Sure. So he never offered me a shot. Now, you know, could I have done something stupid like taking a straight down shot, you know, well he's faced away? Yeah, I could have done that, but yeah, more than likely I would have wounded him, you know. But I was fine with that because I saw that big bear, I saw him up close, you know, and uh, you know, it's it's it again, it's it's just a certain mindset, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Well, that leads into the final one, really, is which is the conservation of stewardship. I know they all tie together a little bit, and we've kind of probably covered that off a little already. I think for me, like in order to actually become intimate with that game animal, I talk about process a lot. In fact, the next book, The Ethical Predator, it's it's called The Path to Mindful Bow Hunting. And I know that may sound cheesy and ethereal and kind of spiritual to people, but I think it's not, it's something like the the inevitable in the in the first book talks about me losing a deer. I lost a deer. I I went back to my truck to grab my tracking kit. I went out to to not even really, I didn't, I wasn't even really gonna hunt that night. I was gonna go out and do a little scout hunt, put my tree stand. I just decided, like, wow, there's a lot of scrapes over here, there's a lot of action. I'm gonna get up and sit there tonight. And I I didn't, you know, I was younger when I framed that animal, it had started raining. I got rained right out on it almost. And and the coil's gone on it. And I but I wanted so badly to find out what had happened. I just needed to know. I saw where the arrow went. I'm like, oh my god. And um I found out where they gone on him. It was not where I thought it had gone. Like he turned in a different direction and and to cut across an open field, obviously get away from them. I think my point I'm trying to make though is that I needed to know, you know. I just I couldn't be like, oh, there's more deer. That would probably in Ontario at that time probably be the only buck I'd see the whole year.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Um, so so I was like, Well, I need to know. And a farmer found him. I didn't. Farmer found him and said, Hey, Grant, I know where he is. I found him. Come on out here. And you know, they probably gotten him within they probably had got when I heard them barking, yeah. I was going back to get my tracking kit. They were already on top of him at that point. My point was, like when I went back and looked, I you know, you start kind of self-assessing. And I wish I knew the train a little better in there. It's first time I'd been in that one end of that swamp. It was tough. You know, and um I helped a guy out uh a few years ago here who transitioned from a compound and he shot a deer one night. He called me and he was completely in a panic. He spent the summer with me getting ready. He said, I hit it, but it's just gone, it took off and it ran and ran and ran. You know, and I said, I just want you to remember something. You know the area though, you know it didn't go there, you know it didn't go there, so it's gotta be somewhere here without getting into too much detail right now. Yeah, yeah. But it's sort of that intimacy that connects with that conservation and stewardship, it goes hand in hand with the whole process. And I'd like to get your take on you know how you feel about that. And if you've you know, hunting four different areas in North America, you kind of have to know where you're at on the ground from a bird's eye, somewhat, correct? And what that environment's like.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, I mean, it you know, it helps. Um, a lot of times, I mean, you know, it I think anybody who hunts a place the first time is a little bit of a disadvantage. Um, yeah, you know, just it sometimes it takes a while. Like I I had a and kind of a prime example, I had a spot I hunted for uh God, 15 years. Yeah, really good spot. It it was open hardwoods, I mean a ton of white oak trees, and you know, um and it so I really had to con it wasn't a lot of cover, so I really had to concentrate on on the terrain, just right, you know, uh just kind of have the watch the funnels, how you know, just the little two-foot rise, how even that changed, where the deer were going. So it it took me a while to figure that out. And then what happened? We got hit with Hurricane Sandy. Hurricane Sandy, right, right, right. Holy just wow, it just uh you know, it changed that set of woods. I mean, it I guess there was a uh pretty rocky area because I mean these big oak trees didn't have a lot of deep roots in them, and they all came down, so that was just changed. And my one spot that I had figured out, and it was yeah, just one tree I I killed a couple of pretty decent bucks out of. Oh man, that just it kind of was got corraled in by a bunch of you know, by a bunch of trees that you know come down. So yeah, yeah. It took me a little bit to relearn what was because even the deer, the deer have to relearn the different routes around and easiest, you know, and stuff like that. So um, but getting back, I think anybody the first time they hunt a property, they're at a disadvantage the first time if they don't spend a lot of time there. Yeah, um, but if they do a lot of time scouting, you know, and whether it's for deer, whether it's for turkey, I mean, turkey, I do a lot of turkey hunting, and it's it's the same thing. You really got to um, you know, uh know where you know creeks are stone walls and things like that, or else, you know, a lot of times you can just sit call call. You'll get the bird will be gobbling like crazy because he wants you to come over, you know, that's right. And uh just not knowing that this, you know, might be there, it's it could have saved yourself a lot of time and aggravation, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

And uh turkeys have become my number one thing in the last I've hunted for over 20 years here, but in the last 10 years, I got a big love hate affair with those birds.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Yeah, it it's they're they're a lot of they're especially with the bow. And I kind of I've got a blind that can set up pretty quick. Yeah. And um, so I try to, you know, I I'll run and gun for a bit with it. So if I I do get one, and I'll, you know, I'll set up. And um, and for me, you know, with with turkeys, it's it's uh decoys are pretty key because that kind of diverts their attention a little bit. Sure, yeah. And stops them, you know, slows them down. But I got I did get there's kind of a just uh funny, and it and again, it's not really known to know the terrain. Yeah. I was out and I got a little I got a little cocky, kind of say. I had a I didn't have a ghillie suit, but I had a leafyware suit, and I was turkey hunting and and uh I had this spot where it was kind of and I and it I set up or I was I was kind of calling as I was going and I was kind of in an open area, I wasn't hearing anything gobble, and all of a sudden I just had a bird gobble really close. I mean he had heard me and he was coming in. Yeah, he just decided to put a beat on me and gobbled.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

I'm kind of stuck in the middle of nowhere. So I dropped down and I had a it was a big, you know, big maple tree I got behind, try to use that as a blind. And he was coming in like he was on a string. I mean, he was the way he was coming in, I I was gonna get probably about a 12-yard shot at him. Yeah, and he and he did exact and he did me one even better instead of coming quarter, he actually stopped. He turned and was walking, you know, perpendicular to me. And and I mean, brought totally broad side, but as soon as I put tension on that string, he was up a tree. He was gone. So it was yeah, you know, but it again it was an exciting hunt. But that was again not me really knowing that you know that big open spot was there, you know, kind of being you know, stuck out and and uh yeah, yeah, you know. If I had to do over again, I would have gone a little different.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

That's fantastic. I I love I love hearing turkey stick bow stories because a lot of people are just we used to have to go to check stations here in Ontario when the season first opened. The first one I took, I'd go through this check station, and there was like a crowd after about 15 minutes. How what what do you mean you shot it with that thing? I had an 85 um 85, 86, uh Damon Howell Mamba, and they were staring at it, and they're looking at the turkey, then they're stare at it and look at the turkey, they stare at it, look at the turkey, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

You know, and it it's funny because I talked about I was I had a little bout with uh you know with with target panic for a while. Yep, and I found it it's gonna sound strange to certain to people, but if you really think about it, I was I had a hard time with big game with it for a couple of years. Yeah, turkeys, I had no problem.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

You know what I believe, and I swear to God, uh, we I have where I sit up, we have a really dense swamp, and this has to go with that stewardship part. So your shot exposure, you've got maybe a two to three second shot window, even in that with the deer. And I had it last Sunday, I had a really nice six-point come in and came in, and then something he smelled me for sure, but he didn't know where he was. But instead of keeping down the trail, he cut to the secondary and he stopped 20 pace away behind this buckthorn tree, which I may add is no longer with us. The buckthorn tree has been since cut cut down. But that being said, you know, it's funny because like it's just such a I find when I have a shorter shot exposure and time, I'm my it's like it really comes together like crazy. It's almost like when I have all that time and luxury, I'm like, oh my god, let's go. You know, I you kind of have to focus so much harder.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Well, I yeah, I think I think with that, and that kind of goes back to what I was saying a little bit with that, you know, with that note that I shot, it's it's you just let muscle memory, everything else take over, you know, it's you don't you're not thinking about the shot, you just do it. Whereas if you're thinking too long, and I think that and that goes along with you don't when you have too much time to think, you put too much pressure on yourself. Right. Yeah, and I think that was and I think that's why with the with as far as with the turkeys, I wasn't putting the pressure on myself as I had with you know with bears and deer and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

And I'll even kind of go back, and it's you know, listen, everybody has bad hits and things like that. And I had a string of uh and it was boggling my mind because they all in there they were seeing like decent hits, but I was I was it we just for some reason there was a couple of bears that we just you know, I had one, it was behind the shoulder, I passed through, couldn't find them. And right this stuff starts playing in my head. I had another one and then this one was I couldn't figure this out. Well, after I mean he could and again, I mean I've I've hunted bears for 30 years, and and it's still you know, because they're a black blob, it's hard to, you know. Sure. I and I he was quartering away, and I you know, and again, the shot, I sunk it right to the fletching. I was I was shooting I was shooting um uh Douglas Furs. It the arrow snapped at the at the at the cresting. So 20 29 inch arrow, 29 and a half half inch arrows, you know. I had sure. I had 20 probably 23, 22 inches in them.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

And um quartering away, but I the only thing I could figure with that was that he was core really more of a harder quarter than I thought he was. Right, right. And either I one-lunged him or I got I just kind of in between the in between the ribs and the skin. That's the only other thing I can think of. But uh it so all that stuff started to play, you know, play in my mind. And then but come turkey season, I wasn't putting the pressure on myself. So it was, you know, the shots were just you know, here they are, you know, and I don't know. So I just I I've learned just to kind of relax a little bit and not to put pressure on myself that you know I was uh that I had been doing, you know, and it it and it's just even guys that have been doing it a long time, it happens, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah. I thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I appreciate it. I I'm trying to get really those grassroots bow hunters, you know, um kind of voice out there a little bit more, you know, and yeah, all the background and experience you've had. I appreciate you taking the time to come on. Our new direction we're moving in for the next uh 10 episodes. It uh means a lot, especially in the middle of deer season right now. So how just to finish up, is your rut going pretty strong right now, or is it yeah, our rut's going the only problem?

SPEAKER_01 43:54

I haven't been out since probably the well, I've I've only had five sits this whole season. I just have a lot going on right now.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Yeah, I try. I'm trying. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah. And it's it's you know, this season I'm just kind of taking it easy as, you know, taking it with strides. I get out when I can. And again, not to put that pressure on myself.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Um, you know, and also next year I'm gonna plan my year out a little bit better where I can plan my vacation because I I don't have much vacation time left. Right. Um I I matter of fact, I plan on just kind of getting away and driving out to Illinois, but the transmission on my pickup went.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Oh no. My God.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

So I was gonna drive out there, so that that didn't it, plus the cost of it. But uh, you know, so it's I'm I'm kind of putting the season just a little bit, just uh, you know, and I'm okay with it because I'm I'm watching my friends knock them down.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Yeah, and it's all it's it's awesome. I mean, uh, you know, a lot of my friends are killing. And that and I run the I run the Facebook page for for uh PBS. Right. I'll post something. If they don't post, I'll post it for them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

My my youngest always is be like, I'll go out, and she'd be like, Did you get a Burkhardt Hall pass? I'm like, they've been revoked this year, dear. I don't have enough time. So she's on top of that. She wants to make a t-shirt with it.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah, so that that's that is that is pretty funny, you know. He's and it's he he's he's got that leash in in Ohio. And I just him him and Don Dave. I don't know if you're familiar with Don Davis, his PBS member from Florida. Really, he's he's a he's another hardcore, yeah, you know, really ethical bow hunter. And uh they were calling me quick draw just because for some reason, go post something, I'll have I'll hit a like within within a minute or something.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

They were kind of you know joking with me about it. Well, it was kind of a good thing in a way, but I didn't have the money to do it anyway. But he had a he had a uh spot on his lease not in Ohio. Oh I was I was the first one. I was it was basically it was mine because I was the first one and I just sure yeah, I just uh I was like I I kind of passed, I passed on it, which I'm kicking myself, but you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

That's so funny. Thanks so much for thanks so much for coming on, sharing your your thoughts. Appreciate it, Sean.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Uh I appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Thanks, appreciate all the support too. It means a lot. Okay, we're we're kind of we're standing alone here in Canada some days, I think.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yeah, it seems, you know, like you said, Canada. I I have a I I kind of have a soft spot for Canada because it's it's uh I've hunted fish can a lot and I've I've done very well there, you know. Yeah, between you know, bears, deer, uh geese, you know, fish and northerns. Yeah, it's it's it's a good place. Right all right. Thanks, man. Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Good luck to everyone out there chasing spring black bear or wild turkeys. We wish you all the best of luck in the woods. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate all the positive feedback we've been getting from folks all over the world. Please do take the time to leave a rating and comment. Our message is based on the three pillars of the code of traditional archery with the ethical predator mindset, weapon proficiency with the stick bow, ethics to guide us on our collective journey, and conservation with stewardship in order to protect the wildlife woods, fields, and waterways we hunt as our themes are resonating. We are the ethical predator, a hunter who adheres to a set of ethical guidelines and principles when pursuing game with a traditional bow or other primitive weapons platform. We're building a movement, a community of like-minded people who celebrate the code of traditional archery worldwide. Our dream connecting everyone that loves traditional bow hunting and inspiring people through the sport we love to carry on the legacy of traditional bow hunting. The first thousand members get lifetime free access. Once we hit a thousand, it'll become paid membership only. Secure your spot now. Join the ultimate traditional bow hunting community and get like-minded hunters who will collaborate that all shoot traditional, expert tracking and scouting strategies used by stick bow hunters for centuries, global connections with traditional bow hunting enthusiasts, and exclusive training tips to elevate your game, contest giveaways, and members-only perks. Gain exclusive access to resources and vote on traditional bow hunting merchandise only available to members. The clock is ticking, get your free lifetime access now. Join and be a part of the movement of traditional bow hunting and support the heritage of hunting the hard way with your own contributions. The link is in the comments. Thanks for listening in. We encourage you to immerse yourself in the art of the stick bow. Shoot straight and walk the path of the ethical predator.